"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike)
09/20/2020 at 09:45 • Filed to: Fuel System, Exhaust
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"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike)
09/20/2020 at 09:45 • Filed to: Fuel System, Exhaust | 2
| 13 |
Humdrum update time ! C ar was in to the garage on Friday to get !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! looked at and my whole happening-since-March fuel overflow issue looked into.
Exhaust leak is now fixed, $145 CAD later....cannot complain about that price at all! A failed gasket and bolts were really the culprit of the leak....the bolts had rusted away to nothing and the back section was starting to separate from the mid section of the exhaust. The gasket was damaged by the exhaust leak, so, a new gasket and new bolts there and the leak was fixed! As for the disintegrated exhaust hanger...that was due to rust too....did I mention I hate the amount of salt they use on the roads here every winter? :(
My mechanic managed to take what was left of the hanger and re-weld/fab up a new one in it’s place. Luckily he did tell me the exhaust, itself, seems to be in very good shape, so that should last for awhile yet! :)
BUT...the fuel overflow issue....
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
, he didn’t solve that. As a refresher, every time I fill the tank now since the gas tank was replaced in March, I’ll get the tank filled to the point it’s full and the pump will click off.....and then gas backflows out of the filler neck for about 5 seconds and down the side of my car and ‘glugs’ back down into the filler neck:
He took a look at things and didn’t see anything obviously loose or disconnected or wrong anywhere. He thinks the issue may be the Canister Close Valve, which is a little solenoid valve on the side of the EVAP canister (#6....pardon Hyundai’s own typo in their own Service Manual, lol):
It controls venting to atmosphere through the pipe/fuel air filter on the filler neck from the EVAP canister/tank....though I would think an issue with that valve would trigger a CEL and I’ve had no Check Engine Lights come on at all...?
H e didn’t want to replace it yet as the part is over $100 CAD locally from Auto Supply shops or the dealer, which is a lot. He knew it’s available for cheaper online so suggested I order it cheaper (he’s a nice guy) , which is what I think I’ll do....found it for around $45-50 CAD online. It’s actually ridiculously easy to get to if the car is on ramps (I have those!) or on a lift , so I may even try changing it myself.
Also....maybe I am misunderstanding, but if that valve were jammed open....that would mean the tank wouldn’t overflow as there would be a constant way for air to escape through the EVAP canister/vent tube, right? BUT, from some skimming of articles and info online, I THINK I understand that the valve is supposed to be CLOSED when the car is off so that the fuel in the tank doesn’t evaporate....? So if it was jammed closed...isn’t that the position it would NORMALLY be in when the car was shut off anyway...and if that’s the case, it wouldn’t affect my backflow issue...? Maybe I don’t quite understand how the system works...
The only other thing we can think of is that the canister, itself, might be clogged or the vent tube, itself...I used to have a tendency to ‘top off’ the tank just a bit after it clicked off (i.e. one of those ‘the fill-up stopped at $17.75...I’ll top it off to a round $18.00' type things). Yes, I know that this is supposedly bad, and I no longer do it (when the pump clicks off, I stop)
, but I wonder if doing that has somehow saturated the EVAP canister and is causing my issue...but if THAT is the case....why did it only magically start after I got my car back from getting the tank replaced...and was perfectly fine before that, despite me filling my car that way for years...?
Anyone out there with a better understanding of how EVAP works that might have an idea what’s going on or tell me if I am misunderstanding how the CCV works ?
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 10:14 |
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I’m probably wrong but see video below. How about this: the tank isn’t venting properly. You fill it with gas and the Air in the tank can’t escape properly especially the last little bit, it’s probably coming up the fuel filler neck and that is the glug glug sound and why it’s overflowing... is there a 1-way check valve on the vent hose? I bet it’s installed backwards or is broken.
MM54
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 10:18 |
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It’s always nice to stop an exhaust leak!
As for the fuel tank thing, you say it started when you had the tank replaced - did you do that yourself or take it somewhere? If the latter, did you take it back to whoever did the work when you realized the new tank would puke when you filled it up?
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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/20/2020 at 10:19 |
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Oh look at this...
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/20/2020 at 10:51 |
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Could be - this is a list of all the Fuel and EVAP system parts....I see a few valves in there:
https://www.wholesalehyundaiparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=1108897&ukey_product=8507147
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/20/2020 at 10:53 |
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Mine’s not hard to fill, nor am I getting a code though...it flows in perfectly
fine, it’s just that when the pump clicks off and it’s full, it then backflows... :(
I’ve thought about the canister being the problem though...
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> MM54
09/20/2020 at 11:04 |
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I had a local garage do it, and the garage’s answer was simply paraphrased
, essentially
‘we used the same parts that were on there other than the tank when we put it back together, so we take no blame -
we can look at it for you but we’ll charge you again’...
Kiltedpadre
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 12:03 |
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I had to replace the evap canister on my truck because folks “topping off” the tank after the pump shuts off would let liquid fuel instead of just vapor into the canister. Come to find out it’s enough of an issue that GM designed a fix that relocated some components to eliminate the issue.
The price to just replace it with the same flawed part? $25
The price for the improved version? $250 and installation required dropping the transmission because the vent line was relocated to a bracket at the back of the bell housing.
I decided to stick with the old system and just not completely fill the tank.
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MM54
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 12:22 |
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I’d be looking to see if either of the vent lines to the filler neck are stuck closed. It sounds like it’s filling past the neck inlet then air is coming up through the filler neck (which is full of fuel) and pushing gas back out the top, whereas the air in the top of the tank should be going out through a vent to above the nozzle via the route below (from looking at it).
(Also I’d not go back
to that shop that did the tank and refused to follow up
)
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> Kiltedpadre
09/20/2020 at 12:56 |
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Yeah....my thing is that I was topping off the tank before the tank was replaced and it was working fine before then, despite that, so I don’t understand what’s changed IMMEDIATELY after changing tanks....
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Kiltedpadre
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 14:43 |
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Any chance the vent line has collapsed internally and it can’t be seen from outside or maybe a chunk of the inner wall has separated and created a blockage? Both would look completely normal but would result in restricted flow that might cause back pressure leading to vented gas gurgling through the fill pipe because they can’t go through the vent line.
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> MM54
09/20/2020 at 15:05 |
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Yeah, not going back to that shop!
I’ll mention the vent lines to my mechanic, but I imagine he already thought of that. It’s only 15C here today, but it’s supposed to be a bit warmer tomorrow, so if I don’t get a sub teaching gig anywhere, I might just dig the ramps out of the shed, pop Humdrum on ‘em and see if I can remove that Canister Close Valve myself and test it with a 12v source....it’s only held on by 2 squeezy hose clamps, and an electrical connector, it’s not even bolted down, it’s clipped in place....if it works when connected to 12v, then I know the issue is elsewhere...
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RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> Kiltedpadre
09/20/2020 at 16:30 |
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Oh, that’s very possible....still odd that it would’ve happened exactly after the old tank was replaced, but maybe something like the action of moving the pipes around to get the old one out/new one in made them deteriorate inside...
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Kiltedpadre
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/20/2020 at 16:39 |
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That’s what I’m thinking. If they reused the old lines they may have been brittle enough or stiff enough from age that moving them around during the install may have cause a failure.